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Coffee Talk #4: Game Review Scores and You


Posted on October 15th, by raymond padilla in Coffee Talk, PC Gaming, Today's Specials, Videogames. 257 comments

Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, whether the Motorola Cliq will turn the company around, why the hell it’s raining in Los Angeles, or bellybutton lint, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.

In Coffee Talk #2, reader rbee90 brought up the topic of game reviews, which led to a conversation about review scores. The discussion started to get interesting and reader RRODisHere suggested that I write about the topic in Coffee Talk. Well here it is!

I have a ton of problems with the way most — not all — game reviews work. Scoring is a huge pet peeve of mine. 100-point scales are just stupid. I’d love for someone to (intelligently) explain the one-point difference between a game that gets an 87 and one that gets an 88. Five-point scales — which I like a whole lot better — are a problem because of the way the business uses scores and how some consumers interpret them. Here’s a pro tip for you — three stars out of five is not the same as 60 percent. Yet that’s the way a three-out-of-five is treated by review aggregators (most of the time). What’s worse is that some publishers base royalties on aggregate review scores, which is completely unfair to developers.

Borat Thumbs Up Coffee Talk #4: Game Review Scores and You

Personally, I think there should only be three review scores — buy it, rent it, eff it, symbolized by thumbs up, thumbs in the middle, and a thumbs down (or Megan Fox’s thumbs). Isn’t purchasing, renting, or passing what it all comes down to anyway? I pushed for this system when I worked at GameSpy, but nobody was buying it. Oddly enough, my boss at GameSpy eventually went to Crispy Gamer, which uses a scale like the one I suggested. Anyway, the bottom line is that scores have become so important that the words behind them are often overlooked and sometimes ignored.

Then there’s the way some games are reviewed. Some publishers send code to reviewers days before they’re allowed to publish their reviews. For competitive reasons, everyone wants to get the review up the second the embargo lifts. This has the reviewer cramming a pint glass of gameplay into a shot glass of time. Another practice that bugs the hell out of me is when publishers have reviewers play the game off site. In these cases, a reviewer has to commute to a hotel suite or a conference room to play the game for a few days before writing the review. Again, the short amount of time introduces a problem, but it’s compounded by having to play the game in a completely unnatural setting. My issue here is that reviewers have to play games in a way that few consumers would. Do most people play 50-hour games in three days? Of course not. Do most people make daily commutes to play games in a conference room? No.

Okay, I’m getting angry about the whole deal. What I’d like to know from you is what you expect from game reviews. Do you like like 100-point scales or do you prefer five-star systems? What information is most important to you in a game review? Do you think that the unnatural way reviewers have to play games leads to an unnatural view of the game? Leave a comment and let me know (please)!





  • N8R

    In all honesty, I don't pat attention to reviews at all. I check out the previews and the demos, and even then I usually stand in front of the rack completely indecisive.

    I like to hear what the community says about stuff first. Honestly, alot of the people here and my online friends have helped me decide most of the games I've gotten over the past few years. I rarely pre-order stuff unless it's a sequel to a game I loved or made by a developer that I'm a fan of.

    Bottom line, scores mean nothing compared to the words of people I trust to be just as much of a gamer as me. That's my opinion.

  • Thundercracker

    i really wanted demon's souls because of all the fantastic reviews, but i just watched a half hour long video review of it on giantbomb.com

    it doesnt look like my kind of game, really

    ill get it, but ill get it for like 30 bucks

  • Thundercracker

    hmmm

  • Thundercracker

    dude, it wont let me post anything

  • Hrolf

    A numerical value does little for me. What I like are peoples likes and dislikes about a game. It gives me a chance to help better decide which game I will purchase, but honestly, if it is a big name game, I already have a good idea if I will like it or not. Wet is a great example of how a demo works for me. Reading about the game, and knowing Bethesda had something to do with it almost guaranteed a purchase. Thank the gods I played the demo because after 3 min. I knew that for me the game blew chunks. It reminded me of John Woos Stranglehold which got tired fast. between the slo mo, mini game button mashing, and filtered graphics.

    Reviews are just a tool for someone to use to better decide their purchase, but it should not be the only thing a person goes by.

  • Thundercracker

    i just watched a half hour review of demons souls on giantbomb.com, and it seems to me that im gonna wait to buy that one used. It just strikes me like its not….whats the word im looking for?

    fun

  • Thundercracker

    ok, so i cant post long comments today…went to giantbomb.com

    watched 30 minute video of demons souls

    despite good reviews ill be buying it used

  • Thundercracker

    you are great

    come to village stop

    infamous el guapo

    put on show

    100,000 pesos

  • Thundercracker

    im having technical difficulties

    i just watched a half hour review of demons souls on giantbomb.com, and it seems to me that im gonna wait to buy that one used. It just strikes me like its not….whats the word im looking for?

    fun

  • Thundercracker

    im having technical difficulties guys

  • N8R

    @ Thundercraker

    3 Amigos.

  • Thundercracker

    i just watched a half hour review of demons souls on giantbomb.com, and it seems to me that im gonna wait to buy that one used. It just strikes me like its not….whats the word im looking for?

    fun!

  • Thundercracker

    i have long comment, but long comment no work for me today, must make shorter

    fire bad

  • tokz_21

    I like your buy it, rent it, or eff it rating.

    That's all i really want to know, it if it's worth all my money or is it just experiencing the game for a bit and be done with it.

  • Thundercracker

    i just watched a half hour review of demons souls on giantbomb.com, and it seems to me that im gonna wait to buy that one used. It just strikes me like its not….whats the word im looking for?

    fun..

  • Thundercracker

    giantbomb.com, demons souls video review, not impressed that much, i buy used

  • Thundercracker

    i buy demons souls used, not impressed

  • Thundercracker

    saw 30 minute review on giantbomb.com. no look fun

  • redtailman

    Uncharted 2 is the perfect game, at least in my book

  • Smartguy

    With Ray's system there is still a flaw. Games are liked or disliked based on the person playing the game. What Ray deems as a buy it game might be a rent or a no thankyou for me. For example, RRODishere keeps saying he settled for Brutal Legend. I think that game is an emphatic buy. I buy that game for a few reasons: 1) I think it is good 2) I want to support developers who do things a bit unorthodox and succeed. Since there is relative value in all titles I think a system should be developed that creates benchmark standards and then the intangibles are what separates the game in the review process. (For what it is worth I like the first Kingdom Hearts because it had great style..BL is the first game this generation that gives me the same feeling)

    Defining those standards and evolving them incrementally per generation of course is easier said than done. Let's take gfx for example. Should all games be based on the same scale no matter which type of animation style they use or which game engine is used? Is it fair to compare the id engine to the Unreal engine? Cellshaded vs something like UC2? I think each engine should be subject to benchmark tests and then judged by how well the developers did with utilizing what is available. Then the intangible arguments of how well sound was used (not sounds), story is told, voice acting, etc.

  • Smartguy

    @Thundercracker

    Really? What don't you like? I like the dungeon crawler aspect of it. The difficulty adds great tension to the gloomy atmosphere.

  • Thundercracker

    looks frustrating….i cant post long comments today for some reason

    im still getting it, just not for 60, when theres so much else right now

  • Thundercracker

    i like giantbomb.com for game reviews, they seem to like the same games i like, they hated demons souls, and id rather get arkham asylum right now than take a chance

  • Thundercracker

    lol

    i figured it out, im trying to use another websites name in this comment

    g

    i

    a

    n

    t

    b

    o

    m

    b

    .c

    o

    m

    anyways, that website has a review of demons souls that is scaring me off for now

    ill just get Arkham asylum

  • Smartguy

    The learning curve in the first "real" dungeon better known as Boletaria Palace can be frustrating. However afterwards you will ask yourself why it was so hard. The game is quite rewarding though.

    I hear ya on the fact there is so much out right now.

  • Thundercracker

    cant go wrong getting arkham asylum instead

  • http://twitter.com/Sandrock323 Sandrock323

    My only problem with your buy/rent/eff it ratings is that you are telling someone what to do. A game you say is a rent could be a buy for some and a game you call a buy might be an eff it to others. Good, bad, and great are better words for it I think. All in all, I've pretty much stopped reading reviews. (but to be fair, it's not like anyone has to read any this year) When Fallout 3 came out, I preordered it and bought it based on reviews. Long story short, I forgot how much I hated ammo management in RPGs, until I played that game.

  • RRODisHere

    @N8R

    If you don't pay attention to reviews them I'm sure you've wasted $60 on bad games before.

    Reviews are important for me. The reviews ARE accurate. Wet go bad reviews because it's a bad game, Uncharted 2 got great reviews because it's a great game. Anyone who say they don't listen to reviews have bought a lot of bad games.

  • Thundercracker

    i actually enjoy metacritic

    i dont take it as gospel though

    if a game gets an 85 or above, its usually a damn good game. The people at ign, gamespot, gamespy, etc, etc cant ALL be wrong

    im much more concerned with movie reviews than game reviews because im at least somewhat confident that game reviewers are more my age and appreciate the same things i do

  • Shockwave562

    I've grown used to a 10 point system. but that's probably because I am used to IGN as I've been reading their reviews most for about 10 years or more. I think I do look at the score because I generally know what that means to IGN.

    What it comes down to if it's a game that I'm really on the fence on I'll read the whole review. usually a good reviewer will indicate whether or not the game is worth renting buying, or just not trying it at all.

    When it comes down to it my game time has really decreased in my adult life. I don't have time to play as many games as I'd like anymore and the rent it ones for me are just not worth my time (such as Banjo Kazooie and Mirror's Edge). I really just want to know which games I should buy

  • RRODisHere

    I can't tell you the difference in an 87 and an 88 score, but I CAN tell you the difference between 2 games that get a 5/5 score like Uncharted 2 and Brutal Legend.

    I think the best rating system is the 10 point scale with halves. How many games that got 5/5 would get 10/10?

  • Shockwave562

    @ Thunder, I was on the fence about that game. what don't you like about it? Is it the difficulty or is it the style? Based on the videos I didn't think I would like it but the reviews have been really good so I thought there had to be some reason

  • Thundercracker

    i totally agree there shockwave, there is enough material out there on the web for someone to get a really good idea on whether or not they would enjoy a game. Thats why i like metacritic, because it takes into consideration so many different opinions. I do research before i drop my 60 bones

  • tokz_21

    All reviews have flaws that's why there are different ratings. I figure that it would work for, let's say i'm on the fence about a game but Rpad or someone else recommends it to buy it. I'd go rent the game or go play at a friends house if they have it and make my decision from there. Or if it was a labeled as a rent i would rent it and see if it was worth my money.

  • Thundercracker

    @shockwave

    you and smartguy both telling me that i would like that game means more to me than a single review from anywhere, but i dont have a lot of time anymore for games ( i wish i still did). I still need to get fight night 4, arkham asylum and uncharted. By the time im somewhat tired with those games, ill be able to get demons souls for 20 bucks..and i will still get it

  • Shockwave562

    I agree RROD, I think 10 point is a lot better than a 5 point. though I never really liked G4s scoring I did however enjoy some of the actual reviews.

    Sorry Thunder I thought you said you did buy it. that game is going to have to wait for me too. it sounds like it is worth trying but I'll get it maybe when there's a lag next year sometime. although winter/spring are shaping up nicely with some good releases

  • Shockwave562

    haha, no Thunder I'm still on the fence, sorry bout that

  • Hrolf

    @ RROD

    Uncharted 2 and Brutal legend are 2 completely different styles of game though, is it fair to compare them together?

  • RRODisHere

    @shockwave

    I think Metacritic is the best place to go. It averages all the review scores. At the very least, you can read all of the reviews because they post links to all of them. Don't ever just go with one review. IGN is the worst to me because they give 9s to every game that has just a little hype. I think IGN rewiews on hype. IGN are the only ones who gave Brutal Legend a 9. I ignore IGN.

  • Shockwave562

    @ Hrolf, I agree but all games are compared when it comes to their score. especially when both those scores came from the same source. it is definitely a difference of opinion maybe but on a 5 point scale Uncharted 2 should be like a 6.

    Brutal Legend could be a great game but perfect? I don't know

  • Shockwave562

    ya RROD I hear you, generally I find though that IGNs score will be close to the metacritic average. I've learned that a lot of the big places will have similar scores.

    I really go to IGN because I enjoy reading their reviews. like I said it isn't quite as much about the score as the words to me

  • RRODisHere

    Look up Uncharted 2 on Metacritic. There are 62 reviews and none of them are under a 9 and they all average out to a 96%. Everyone agrees that Uncharted 2 is great.

    • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

      Guys, one of the points of buy it, rent it, eff it is to emphasize the words of the review. SO much of this is subjective! Using a 100-point system, the same game will be a different score to two different reviewers and two different consumers. With the system I prefer you have a simple guideline with the words backing up the reasoning.

      @RROD My big issue with the ten-point system is that many outlets use it differently, but it's treated the same by aggregators. Some use 5 (EGM) as the average, while others use 7(Game Informer) as the average. Using the GI system is stupid because you waste so much of the scale.

      @Everyone I'm posting this in bed from WordPress for BlackBerry. Frickin' mosquito bit me and woke me up. He gets an "eff it" for the reason stated in the last sentence, as well as my two new itchy spots.

  • Shockwave562

    I only trust the big names on Metacritic though. I hate seeing some obscure name on their with a vastly different score than everyone else. Truth be told I am usually more interested in the negatives of a game than the positives but I think a lot of reviews that end up on metacritic are biased

  • Smartguy

    @shockwave

    Brutal Legend is a great game. It isn't perfect. Perfection is very rare. I can only name a few that I think are perfect.

    Warcraft 2 and 3. Diablo 1 and 2. Ocarina of Time, Windwaker, Twin Snakes, Snake Eater, Soul Calibur (DC version). That's about it.

  • RRODisHere

    @Hrolf

    No, it's not fair to compare them but everybody keeps doing it. Yesterday on the Feed, Patrick Klepek posted a topic titled "Uncharted 2 or Brutal Legend, which one did you buy?".

  • Smartguy

    @RROD

    I bought both. No remorse lol.

    Saints > Falcons

  • rbee90

    why i hate reviews sooooooo damn much is because, if one dude says a bad thing about this game, the consumer will probably but most probably would not buy that game. do you guys remember when sessler was ranting on RE5? i totally believed him, and on that same day, my brother bought RE5, and it was a $#!t load of fun. I was that close of not buying an amazing game, because this game website or some dude said it sucked. i never trusted scoring systems since then. one other review site i really loathe is IGN. the reviewers are kinda stupid. some people would think if that game scored a 10 or a 9, its like the best game in the world…thats BS…dead space scored an 8, but it was one of the best original IP's released that year. same thing goes for mirror's edge. AND the most underrated game i ever played last year…VALKYRIA CHRONICLES. now that was an awesome game. people just *meh'd* it because its *NOT* final fantasy or something. F-tards.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    really, the most natural review system for all of us SHOULD be the 1-10 scale.. we all have a great understanding of the diff between an 8 or a 9 and a 10.. i think its when we get into the "__ .5" business that the scores become a bit arbitrary. and even though someone's 7 may not be the same as anothers, i can interpret that the reviewer, at the very least, couldn't rate it an 8-10 so theres gotta be reason as to why not and thats when my judgment comes in. people should really read reviews though to have some sort of understanding as to what the reviewer was grading against. I'm all for the 1-10 scale.. sorry Ray, but the buy it rent it eff it is just too vague and would need a serious list of pros and cons to accompany it for me to really give this type of scoring a moment of my time.. =/

  • Hrolf

    Well, I am not sure if there is such a thing as a "perfect" game. looking back at some of my most loved and favored games in the past, there were things about all of them i would have changed, Including Fallout 3, which I have put more time in so far then just about any game I have ever played, minus Ultima 6, 7, and 7 part 2.

    Uncharted 2 looks AMAZING, too bad I dont have the cash for a PS3 right now but thats probably for the better, next year i really think sony is gonna FINALLY play catch up and kick some serious ass.

    Brutal Legend looks really good too, but in a completely different way. Uncharted looks to take itself as a more serious style of game while Brutal Legend is alot more comedic and unusual

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    What's wrong with the small sites? The IGN guy's opinion is no more important than the small site guy's opinion. Are you telling me that Raymond Padilla's opinion on a review doesn't matter anymore because he's no longer working for G4?

  • Hrolf

    @ Rbee90

    RE5 does suck in my opinion, BUT Sessler and his crew gave Fable II GOTY award. Can you REALLY listen to someone that gives such a flawed and rushed glitch-fest of a game such high praise.

    If anything, read at least 5 reviews and go on the reviewers pros and cons of the game. you get a better idea of WHY the game got the score and you can make a better choice at that point.

  • RRODisHere

    @Smartguy

    I bought Uncharted 2 and yes, I settle for Brutal Legend for free. I say I settled for it because I would never have spent $60 for it. Toys R Us didn't have Demon's Souls and I had a free game to pick so I had to pick something. I wasn't going to give up a free game. I haven't even taken it out of the plastic yet. I'll get to it eventually.

  • Hrolf

    @ R-Pad

    Your system is meant to be read, and not as a simple buy it,rent it, or eff it. You are talking about actually talking about WHY the game should be rented, bought, or eff'ed right?

    • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

      @Hrolf Yup yup. That's the idea.
      @Everyone I'm starting to feel weird about posting comments in bed. Would this be like talking to you in bed? Like if we were all in a giant bed together. Ewwwwwww!!!

  • Smartguy

    @RROD

    same with UC2 for me.

  • RRODisHere

    @Smartguy

    As far as Saints>Falcons. Just like a game is what the reviews say they, a football team is what their record says they are. So I'll admit that the Saints are better than the Falcons……..for now.

  • Thundercracker

    just found this on vgchartz

    Naughty Dog Dev, "ReklissAbandon", slipped up with the following comment when asked about spectating the enemy team in Uncharted 2:

    "I think they wanted people to have fun and ejoy the show since all dead players can talk to each other no matter what team you are on. But I will suggest it anyway. Not to mention that the next PS3 firmware update is going to allow cross game chat. So if players use that instead of in game communication then they would also be able to communicate enemies positions."

    The comment itself has since been removed.

    yeah cross game voice chat, xbl still worth 50 bucks?

    i love flame wars, ill never stop

  • Empyu

    I have two problems with the way games are reviewed.

    People take reviews to be facts. There are no two people who've played a game that had the exact same experiences with it. You can't just look at a metacritic score and have a number tell you whether you're going to like a game or not. I bet there's someone out there right now who thinks Darkest of Days is the best game he's played in a while – and someone else who played Street Fighter 4 for 10 minutes and never picked it up again. What good is metacritic to these people?

    If reviews are accurate portrayals of how good a game is, why are there so many people saying games like CoD and Halo are overrated?

    The second problem I have is that all reviews in every industry are done by one person. I feel reviews would benefit if they were done Ebert and Roeper style where people either agree or disagree on the subject.

    It frustrates me when I watch G4 and they say something like, "X-play gave Brutal Legend a 4 out of 5." That's rediculous because if they had gone with a different reviewer, it could've gotten a 3 or maybe a 5. They had one person represent X-play on a subject. Remember the controversy that was sparked when Mr. Sark reviewed ODST?

    Game Informer pretends to have two people review games, but it's pointless because the two reviews almost always agree with each other. For any game, there's going to be people who like it and people who dislike it. Any review that doesn't represent both sides is only giving half the story and doing a disservice to the people who depend on this information for their purchasing decisions.

  • RRODisHere

    @Hrolf

    Exactly. X-Play lost all credibility for me when they gave Fable 2 G.O.T.Y.

  • Thundercracker

    also

    rip

    captain lou albano

    he died saturday

  • Shockwave562

    I certainly woulnd't have given Fable 2 Game of the year. mostly because I felt like Fallout 3 deserved it. but it was a very fun game. I don't remember all the glitches that you mentioned though Hrolf

    @RROD, well I know Raymond and trust his opinion… so that's a different story. I guess when you read the same persons reviews/articles you get a good idea of what they like in games. I don't have time to build a new editor relationship :)

  • Hrolf

    @ Thundercracker

    can we PLEASE keep flamewars off this site? there is no need for it. save it for the FEED forums where we can all piss others off. Im really enjoying the banter back and forth from everyone and were all gamers here with a love for playing games. no need to bash our systems of choice.

  • Shockwave562

    I think this whole problem with the review process comes down to the bottom line. unfortunately if that's the only line you read you're not going to be fully educated on a game. I'm more worried about spending $60 on a game that I don't actually play more than anything.

    If I know the style of the game and have read a few reviews to get an idea of what the game is about then I don't have a problem taking the plunge. There have been plenty of games that I bought and only spent an hour or 2 on though… these things happen because my gaming taste is different from everyone else

  • Empyu

    @Thundercracker

    I hate flame wars… but you're not actually starting one. It could be seen as starting a valid debate on value vs reward for using XBox Live over PSN.

    It's only a flame war when people start calling each other trolls and kids and other things that usually get censored. Hey does this board filter cursing?

  • Hrolf

    @ shockwave

    My wife had to restart her game 3 times and I had to restart the game 2 times. SHE finally beat the game, after getting to the 3rd hero each time before glitches killed the game, I am just past getting the third hero and cant leave the map I am on without the game freezing. instead of some stupid DLC that was obviously meant to further rip money out of peoples hands, they should have fixed the problems first.

    lol, I wont even get into how badly I want to punch Peter Molynoux's face in for the iles he tells about his games.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @ray,

    kinda creepy..

  • Shockwave562

    @ Hrolf…. Here here. Sony and MS fans debating together without hate FTW!!

    • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

      @Shockwave "Knowing" reviewers is part of the deal too. The idea is that enthusiast gamers get to the point where they say, "This guy Fran at IGN. I like the games he likes for the same reasons he likes them. I'm going to listen to him," or, "This guy **** is nuts for thinking so much of Mabel 2 (not the game's real name). I'm not listening to his opinion anymore. "

      Some people are Eberts. Others are Ropers.

  • RRODisHere

    @Empyu

    Games are too expensive to do trial and error. The reviews will give you a good enough idea of what to expect.

  • Shockwave562

    wow, sorry Hrolf I didn't know about any of that. no problems with mine. maybe there was a disc problem?

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    Ironically, I posted an article on this subject titled "Why Review Scores Matter….And Why They Don't" on the start up site I write for. If you want to check it out, here's the direct link:

    http://www.gamerswishlist.com/news/207-Why-Review

    The emphasis for this was that we'd just given a somewhat low score to Guitar Hero 5, (the reviewer felt the songs offered should have been DLC and that there wasn't enough there to justify a full $60 release.), and I had the Halo 3: ODST review about to go up. So we figured it was as good a time as any to explain our scoring system.

  • tokz_21

    @Rpad

    hahaha Only you….

    This review scale is getting out hand. look what you started Rpad.

  • Thundercracker

    yeah i know, that wasnt a flame war i was starting there

    if cross game chat is included in the next firmware update like has been speculated, is there really a reason to still consider xbl that much better than psn?

    all ive ever wanted is my music to be able to play while im playing a game…i guess i answered my own question

  • Hrolf

    "i love flame wars, ill never stop" kinda implies he wants to start one.

  • Thundercracker

    @ray

    i havent felt like that since my time at neverland

    you arent gonna give us any jesus juice are you dude?

  • Hrolf

    lol yes there was a disc problem, they went gold on a game that should have been in testing for 6 more months

  • Shockwave562

    The nice thing for me Hrolf is that I can have both PSN and XBL for $50 per yer. if they both cost money I'd probably have to choose one or the other but thankfully I don't

  • Empyu

    @RRODisHere

    I'm not saying to go by trail and error, but there are other resources available other than just reviews. Don't you think that someone who's watch previews, gameplay videos, and tried the demo has more information than a person who's just looked at a metacritic score?

    @Shockwave562

    "There have been plenty of games that I bought and only spent an hour or 2 on though… these things happen because my gaming taste is different from everyone else."

    This was my point exactly. Metacritic tries to fit everyone into a cookie cutter and assumes everyone will have the same experience with every game. It just doesn't work that way.

    • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

      Also, no way I could have written my last few comments so quickly on WordPress for iPhone.

  • Shockwave562

    I know i know but I meant your disc, as in if you got a new one your problems wouldn't have happened. I don't recall seeing any articles about a major fable 2 glitching problem

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @thundercracker

    nuh uhh!!! xbox live it soooo worth my $60 on top of the fact that i have to pay for broadband on the side!!

    (joke)

  • Shockwave562

    #67 was at thunder, oops

  • Thundercracker

    @hrolf

    i will never stop

    you want me to lie and tell people that there are plenty of good reasons to own an xbox?

    ok….

  • Thundercracker

    wow, that xbox exclusive lineup is looking good!

  • Empyu

    @Thundercracker

    "all ive ever wanted is my music to be able to play while im playing a game…i guess i answered my own question"

    You know what console did that the best? The original XBox. I was so surprised when the 360 and PS3 couldn't handle music files the same way the first XBox did.

  • Shockwave562

    @ Thunder, agreed , Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell and Crackdown are very high on my list right now.

    same with Heavy Rain and GOW 3

  • Empyu

    @Ray

    All I've been saying is that reviews would be better, and more interesting if the two sides got together more often to do their reviews.

  • Shockwave562

    ya Ray I will admit iPhone wouldn't worth with the length of this page

  • Thundercracker

    @shockwave

    damn straight, the xbox kicks ass…reliable, quiet AND such a versatile and robust library of exclusive software released this year!

  • Shockwave562

    #79 worth – work**

  • RRODisHere

    @Empyu

    A game is what it's Metacritic average says it is. Demos can be misleading. Devs often give you the best part of the game in the demo and the rest of the game is less.

  • Shockwave562

    I'm glad you're finally coming around. I think Mass Effect 2 will be my GOTY next year for sure. I'm just thankful I had the ability to get both systems so I wouldn't miss out on Uncharted 2 or Mass Effect. I know it will come to PS3 eventually but I'm sort of a here and now guy. especially since I have 3-4 characters from ME 1 to import

  • SlickyFats

    I like the "rent it, buy it, pass" system that DVDuesday uses. I don't know why others couldn't do the same. I mean it would have to be utter crap to say pass. But nonetheless I tend to rely on renting or discount games if I am on the fence about a title. I can read reviews all day but that still doesn't mean it is going to be a good game once I start playing it. Heck I read Sark's review of ODST and many others, I still didn't care for it. Reviewers opinions have become less of a priority for me. Heck i trust the people on here more. I am still looking for Demon Souls because it was suggested.

  • tokz_21

    @rpad

    I don't have that problem with posting comments with my iphone using safari. do you have to do something different since your the administrator or keeper of the blog.

  • Hrolf

    Just because YOU think the xbox is crap does not mean everyone does. there are plenty of games that are Xbox only that are great. not to mention some of the cross platform games look like garbage on the PS3. Regardless, we all agree we like to play games, I dont see any reason to attack someone for their system/systems of choice, unless they ONLY own a WII and think the games way better then anything Xbox or PS3 can do.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    the price to play online is a bitter/sweet topic because for some they still pay to play while others can join online right outa the box. its not flaming, some appreciate their consoles simply because of that while others become livid for being called out on their senseless spending. its no wonder why gamers become so polarized and flame.

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    @Shockwave: I have 6 characters to import. On for each character class. It's a sickness with me. I love me some Mass Effect…..

  • Shockwave562

    @ RROD. is it just me or is it crap games that release demos? It always seems like the games I know will be good don't even do a demo until a few months after release.

    I've liked maybe 2-3 demos (not including Beta) out of all the ones I've played on PS3 and 360

  • Shockwave562

    @ Tokz… sure but don't you have to scroll forever on safari to get to the bottom?

  • tokz_21

    @Shockwave

    only after i refresh the page and there are 100 plus comments which we are getting to.

    Other than that i don't have any issues.

  • Shockwave562

    @nightshade, haha, that is determination my friend. I generally do one good and one evil but I also added in some female, and another character class with Mass Effect

  • Shockwave562

    I hear ya, I mean I wouldn't mind posting on mine but after a while the scrolling would be a nightmare. they should do something about that I think

  • Empyu

    @RROD

    That's not exactly true. Most developers want to hide a lot of what's in the game, so they won't always put their best foot forward for the demo

    What you can take from a demo is how the game feels and how much you might enjoy its core gameplay. If you don't trust the content in a demo, there are plenty of gaming journalist sites that post their gameplay videos of the game. And those are definitely not provided by the game's developer.

  • Thundercracker

    hrolf

    what the @##$ are you reading?

    if you dont like me, dont read what i write

    cause let me tell you something, i dont give a crap about you OR what you write

    go bitch to someone else, i dont wanna hear you complain…these are all my people here

    who the hell are you?

  • Shockwave562

    @empyu. on that subject I was completely caught off guard after playing the Brutal Legend demo. when I read the review they said most of the game played out like an RTS which I didn't get to see at all in the game demo

  • Shockwave562

    come on guys… leave the flames somewhere else. people like Xbox people like PS3… settled now?

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @Hrolf

    … lol you kinda sound like you are about to "flame on!" on us for the xbox =P

  • tokz_21

    yeah im at work so posting right now isn't a problem.

    it's when it gets around 4p Central Time or 2p Rpad's blog time, that i don't get to see what's on the boards.

  • Empyu

    @Shockwave562

    Yeah, I felt like the only person who knew about the RTS part of the game before launch. When I mentioned it to people they thought I was talking about the wrong game.

    But Double Fine did release tutorial videos about how to play the RTS portion of the game… I just don't think they were posted on the Feed.

  • Thundercracker

    yeah he sounds like a bleeding hypocrite

  • oOcornflakeOo

    ::damn, it wasn't me after all to start the flame wars::

  • Thundercracker

    did some research and just bought fight night round 4 and legends of wrestlemania for 57 bucks, together

    im the best

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    You're right about the demo thing. On a side note, you mentioned that you think that Mass Effect will come to the PS3 eventually which it definitely will because it is completely 3rd party, like Splinter Cell: Conviction. Even if new Xboxes don't break as much, that's the reason why I see no reason to buy one because their games are either on PC or on their way to the PS3 later. Why should I buy an Xbox for one or two games when I can wait a year for the PS3 version. The 2 biggest "exclusives" for the Xbox next year will be on the PS3 eventually so I see no need to have an Xbox.

  • Shockwave562

    people have a preference, I have both systems and I have a preference. let's just accept that we prefer different systems and not blatantly attack a system/company without cause. most of us here have been around for a while on that other site I see no need to troll on each other

  • Thundercracker

    oh noes! since rrod gave his opinion, he must have started a flamewar!

  • tokz_21

    @thundercracker

    Good Deal! I got my fight night for 49.99 through the EA website a couple months back. They sent me an e-mail with a checkout code coupon.

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @Everyone Okay! Computer is up and the knee brace is on!

    @tokz_21I was talking more about the writing speed. I'm WAY faster on my Blackberry than on my iPhone.

    @RROD This was a great idea. A lot of what I wrote in today's Coffee Talk, I wouldn't have been allowed to write in Morning Hangover. The discussion is great and writing on my opinions on the flaws in game reviews was liberating.

  • Hrolf

    @ Thundercracker

    Wow. defensive much?

    Maybe you should stop trying to start a war by bashing a system. You must have some issue seeing as how you are getting all upset at me for nothing other then trying to maintain real communication here instead of what always happens on the other forum.

    lets see you started with

    “i love flame wars, ill never stop”

    "you want me to lie and tell people that there are plenty of good reasons to own an xbox?"

    "damn straight, the xbox kicks ass…reliable, quiet AND such a versatile and robust library of exclusive software released this year!"

    THAT is wtf I am reading. so please, stop being a jerk. There is no need for it

  • Shockwave562

    I don't think you have to buy one RROD, would I recommend having one, yes. like I said I am a here and now person. call me impatient but I can't stand it when other people are playing a great game that hasn't been released for my platform yet.

  • Shockwave562

    @thunder, actually I think RRODs comment was well formed and wasn't hateful at all. there's a difference between a reasonable argument and 57% FAIL SUCK IT M$ CHILDREN… you know?

  • SlickyFats

    @RPad

    Is this creating any income for you? It'd be nice it it were and you could just stick to this everyday.

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    I meant that in a non-fanboy way.

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    Guys, it's cool to attack each other's opinions, but PLEASE do not attack each other personally, call each other names, etc.

    @SlickyFats It's creating some income for me — more than I thought it would honestly (you guys rule!) — but it's still a ways off from minimum wage and certainly not what I was making before. It would be a dream come true if "this" was my entire job. Who knows? Maybe things will keeping heading up and up and it will happen.

  • Thundercracker

    stop being a jerk?

    i just dont like you

    i have that right, this site is full of people who like and respect each other, youve upset the balance

    now stop pestering me…kirk cameron is less annoying

  • SlickyFats

    @Hrolf

    "stop being a jerk" your comment was SUPER defensive and even through in some PS3 bashing I don't think you have any room to talk there.

  • Shockwave562

    @ Ray.. see that's funny because my first smartphone was an iPhone, before that was regular phone stuff. It takes me about a year to form a sentence on a qwerty such as a palm or BB. once again just another difference of opinion and preference

  • Hrolf

    I have not bashed on a system at all. I Wish I had bought a PS3 instead of a Wii though, would have gotten ALOT more use out of it for sure.

  • SlickyFats

    There is a disturbance in the force.

  • Thundercracker

    @ray

    i just wont talk to him or about him

    @shockwave

    dude, if you take anything i say seriously, then you dont pay attention very well

  • Shockwave562

    @RROD, I appreciated it. it was a solid argument to which I can't refute other than the time thing. I wish I could keep an up to date PC. then I could play games like Crysis 2 in their true glory

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @Shockwave562 I would bet a decent amount of money that after two weeks with a BB, you'd type faster than you do on your iPhone.

  • Shockwave562

    @thunder I know but Hrolf doesn't.. we have a small group of people that come here and I don't want people to start forming cliques on this small site yet. Ray could use all the traffic he can get

  • Thundercracker

    i just like to spar with other other intelligent people shockwave

    i dont care if you like the xbox better or if you like the commodore 64 better

  • SlickyFats

    I have to agree with Ray there. I had an iPhone for some time, and then a full touch screen WiMo phone, but with my Blackberry Bold typing is very fast compared to all the others

  • Shockwave562

    aha, I will have to put that theory to test Ray

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    I hear you on the here and now thing but I think we all have a back log of games that makes a wait for a certain game manageable. Remember, I just bought Fallout 3 while you guys have been playing it for a year now.

  • Hrolf

    wait, MY comment was defensive?

    wtf is this then

    "#95 Thundercracker :

    hrolf

    what the @##$ are you reading?

    if you dont like me, dont read what i write

    cause let me tell you something, i dont give a crap about you OR what you write

    go bitch to someone else, i dont wanna hear you complain…these are all my people here

    who the hell are you?"

    and I am the one being attacked? I am the one that does not want to see a war going on.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    i'm passionately against spending money on the dreaded system! i did own one before it bricked. and any one who can't see when a system is a lemon deserves to be bashed.. nothing against Hrolf but as a consumer, its nucking futs to invest 3-400 bones on a product proven to fail 57% of the time. no dice M$.. no dice

  • Shockwave562

    for sure Thunder, and I like a good debate as much as the next guy I just don't want to hate on anyone that was smart enough to come over here from that other site. I think we can have debates and not hate on one another

  • Thundercracker

    witness the power of loyalty

    @anyone

    is saints row 2 any good? Its on ebay for 20 bucks….is it worth that?

  • Shockwave562

    So True RROD, I know I'm super impatient at times, I really should create a back log. it's sad to say but if a game falls off my radar I sometimes forget about it. I could probably pick up Mirror's Edge, Fear 2, and a number of other games for probably 20 bucks during a lull in releases.

    Like with fallout 3 there is never a bad time to try a good game for the first time.

  • Thundercracker

    @shockwave, ive stopped…..and since im infalliable, i dont apologize nor do i harbor regret

  • Hrolf

    ok @ Thunder, I am sorry if I took what you were saying too seriously, I really am not trying to start anything with anyone. Part of what I like on THIS site is the lack of flaming by anyone so far. Alot of times what is written on a site can be taken several ways and it really DID seem like you were trying to start something. Again, I apologize if I misread.

  • Shockwave562

    I own saint's row 2. I think it's a fun game and worth 20 bucks. call me loyal to an xbox exlcusive but I think the Sony guys should get a shot at it. they kept with the GTA form more so than GTA 4 did. if you miss San Andreas this is a game for you.

  • Hrolf

    And Saints Row II is far better then the 1st one, and has most of what you may have missed with GTA 4 not being anything like GTA:SA

  • Shockwave562

    he does joke Hrolf, I think as Xbox owners we do get really sensitive about certain things like RROD and XBL costing money. problem is when you like something you want to defend every aspect of it. sometimes Xbox fanboys will defend things that no one should, like MS points

  • SlickyFats

    @Thunder

    I loved Saints Row 2. It was much better than 1. It is everything that GTA 4 should have been. It is actually fun. I would pick it up for $20 bucks.

  • Thundercracker

    mirrors edge for 15 bucks or so….

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00149ND28

  • Empyu

    $20 is a pretty good price for Saints Row2. People don't expect much from the game, but it has a lot to offer. A lot of cheap thrills and co-op. Some of the activities are harder in co-op though.

    On the last level on insurance fraud, you have to earn $500, but if you do it co-op you have to earn 1 million.

  • Shockwave562

    see, I should do this more. especially with this whole Uncharted 2 Brutal Legend thing. I've got a few games keeping me busy this holiday but if I can get Demon's Souls and Brutal Legend for 20 bucks next spring I'd totally buy them

  • SlickyFats

    @Shockwave

    Maybe I misread what you said, but only the first Saints Row was exclusive. I own it on my PS3. Of course anything multiplatform goes to my PS3 rather than my 360 (its a matter of hard drive space for the most part)

  • oOcornflakeOo

    i hate any rating system with .5's unless its the 1-5 scale (which in essence makes a 10 point scale =P)

  • tokz_21

    @Rpad

    I see your point, i haven't had my iphone long but i'm pretty good at typing on it when it is on landscape mode. The thing i don't like about it is that it corrects me when i purposefully want to misspell a word or if i'm typing slang into it. Do you know if there is some way i can avoid using this or add words to whatever the auto checker is?

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @Everyone A word of advice — if you're every applying for health insurance on ehealthinsurance.com, make sure you picked the right plan before hitting submit. I spent a frickin' hour on the application last night, only to make a moronic error. Now I'm jumping through hoops to see if they can make the change.

    *smackshead*

    @tokz_21 Here are some articles from Lifehacker (great site!) on iPhone autocorrect.

    http://lifehacker.com/search/iphone%20autocorrect

  • Shockwave562

    lol, oh slicky that's funny. I thought it was still exclusive. well that's a relief

  • SlickyFats

    Mirrors Edge is only $20 brand new at Best Buy

  • Thundercracker

    @shockwave

    totally what im going to do

    and i still have to buy assassins creed, the god of war collection and modern warfare 2

  • Shockwave562

    @tokz. check your settings, you can disable this option for text entry.

    I've been using the iphone since release so most of my friends are pretty impressed with how well I can type on it by now

  • SlickyFats

    @Rpad

    I tried to get health insurance because our company canceled our group policy, but when they ask what meds I am on and what for they tend to hang up on me, I mean really is a Blood Pressure of 220/112 THAT bad? lol (sadly this is the truth)

  • Thundercracker

    infamous for 37 bucks

    free shipping

    SOLD!

    that was one of my toys r us games too….

    i know i know, i should have had this game already

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @SlickyFats This is my first experience getting individual health insurance. I was shocked at how much info was required.

  • Hrolf

    I think MS points are the dumbest idea everl why cant a damn dollar mean a damn dollar.

    As far as the cost of having gold goes, I pay for the service,I would of course prefer free, but MS went a different route with that. I would not be surprised though if within a year or so Sony starts to do the same thing. I dont own a PS3(yet) and dont have the money to get one. I wont anytime soon either as having kids drains the funds for anything other then them usually.

    As for RROD, I think anyone who has owned an Xbox knows how badly it sucks, I have had the RROD many times, and I hate it, but I am not going to go to gamestop and dump all my games off for a PS3 and a few games. so long as they fix the problem, I will continue to play my Xbox.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @slickyfats…

    umm… you might wanna get that checked out.. dude even a brisk walk around a park or on a treadmill, yoga, meditation or something… wow.

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    I just read your comment about Xbox owners sometimes defending things that they shouldn't and I couldn't help but be reminded of some really moronic defenses. As RedRingOfDeath, when I baited the Xbox fanboys I founded it hilarious how some of them defended the RROD situation when it was at it highest point. In all seriousness, that should never have gotten defended and M$ should have never have gotten a pass for that.

  • SlickyFats

    @RPad

    Yeah it is a copious amount of information, some of which I don't know why they need i.e. the name of my 4th unborn son?!?

    Also be prepared to pay out the A$$! Individual is a ripoff

  • tokz_21

    @Rpad

    Thank you very much for the info, it seems like a hassle to add the z or just enter the word in the seach google field on my safari browser but i guess this will have to do, unless you have any info on jb apps that can help.

  • RRODisHere

    @Thundercracker

    You didn't have Infamous already?!

  • SlickyFats

    @cornflake

    No its in check now. Its not that I don't exercise. Hypertension runs in my family. It had more to do with cutting out Salt and caffeine. Its now down to typically 110/65. That was hard to get used to. I had no energy for nearly a month.

  • Thundercracker

    @rrod

    i know, im ashamed

    although i have already played the hell out of it

  • Shockwave562

    haha, RROD. it's true. some people are blindly in love with a company that only cares about their dollars. let's face it. every corporation is only concerned about our dollars and theirs. though I love my PS3 and my 360 I can't think of a single console I've ever owned without its faults

  • Thundercracker

    @rrod

    i think its cause i didnt wanna pay 60 bucks for a game with no multiplayer, now i got it for 37

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @Hrolf

    hmmm talk to me when that warranty runs out.. and where did that diff route take M$? and xbots (not calling you one) have been saying "oh i bet PSN will cost within a year from now" since the PS3 came out

  • Thundercracker

    lol

    i need to do this more often

    just got arkham asylum for 30 bucks

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @SlickyFats Actually, the plan I had at work was the worst and most expensive plan I've ever had in my life. The stuff on ehealthinsurance has better coverage for way less.

  • Thundercracker

    only good thing about working at ups

    free and amazing benefits

  • RRODisHere

    @Hrolf

    o0cornflake0o made a good point. What will you do when the RROD warranty runs out?

  • Smartguy

    @Thundercracker

    Gratz on AA for cheap. Though I wish you would have bought it full price to push their units sales up lol. WWE Legends is quite a treat if you are an old school fan. The game suffers from bad controls in my opinion. The game isn't unplayable, it 's just that if you fight another person don't try and throw them or anything. Just spam punches.

    HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! USA USA USA

  • Shockwave562

    @RROD, if my xbox breaks out of warranty (next year) I'll probably just get the arcade. I've already got the HDMI cable, and 120 gig HDD.. so 200 bucks isn't too bad. or MS will fix RROD for $100 (but I'd probably rather have new)

  • oOcornflakeOo

    i haven't had health insurance since i've been outa high school. health insurance is for the weak!! hmmph! B-)

  • Hrolf

    The route they took was right up the consumers ass without lube lol. As for PSN I am surprised they dont charge, though they dont use their own servers for other companies games do they?

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @oOcornflakeOo Ha! You'll think differently when torn cartilage is floating around in your knee area, sometimes causing crippling pain.

    :P

  • RRODisHere

    @Shockwave

    Yeah, you're probably better off getting a new arcade if they really are supposed to be of better quality. I truly think M$ wanted to make the arcade SKU that cheap because they knew people would have to buy multiple systems.

  • Smartguy

    @Everyone

    There is no fault in Hrolf buying an xbox. If he has to buy a new one then he buys a new one. I bought more than one PS2 and 2 PS1 units. Oh yeah, 2 gamecubes. Things happen. Oh well. One of the downsides of mass production. I own all three current machines. I choose the games for it by these criteria: 1) are my friends getting it and for which system? 2) which controller would be better for this game? (FPS for 360). It's as simple as that.

    Hrolf has said more than once that the price for a PS3 isn't in the cards. I understand that and can't begrudge anyone for it. I sure as hell didn't buy one when they were 600 bucks.

    So it seems that my classes are being cut short and outright cancelled since the king…I mean POTUS is here in our area today. Fringe benefit I guess.

  • Hrolf

    What shockwave said. Ill stick it out till next generation systems, but they wont have my money next time around. I never owned a PS2 and still regret that decision. I will have a PS3 next year, hopefully early on so I can enjoy the games I have wanted to play(LBP, Infamous, Uncharted 2, KZ 2) to name a few.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    ughh..

    @shockwave..

    its consumers like you that encourage american corporations to short stick its costumers and continue to mass produce shiz in a box. you know, we as a people have forgotten how to hold ppl and companies accountable for what they say, sell, and claim. it makes me sick

  • Smartguy

    I wish Sony would invest in more bandwidth for PSN. Took me 25 minutes to download a 256mb patch for a game last night. That is crazy. I did find something great about PSN last night as well…Venture Bros is $2 per episode! WOOT

  • Smartguy

    @cornflake

    American corps huh? I'm sure the QC at Euro corps, Japanese corps, and Chinese corps is no better. We get inferior goods because we choose to spend our money on inferior goods. All about spreading the money around we have and making it last.

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @Shockwave562 That's actually the first good reason I've heard for buying the Arcade SKU.

  • Shockwave562

    you may have a point cornflake. but I'm not the one taking a stand against corporations, I'm way too lazy to do that. truth be told I bought a couple of PS2s because of the Laser read problem. I really hate what happened with MS but I love good games more. to me the console isn't about MS or Sony. it's about developers who put their heart and souls in to these games. to me the console is just the means to that end. nothing more

  • Shockwave562

    haha, RPad, well if it didn't have HDMI I would have to think more about that. let me be the first to say Finally!

  • RRODisHere

    @Hrolf

    There will be a big backlog of good PS3 exclusives waiting on you when you buy a PS3 next year.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @Ray, thats what drugs are for.. i'll be a nurse in like 8 months so.. ::crosses fingers, knocks on wood, etc::

  • Hrolf

    Yea. unfortunately I wont be able to grab a backward compatible system and get some PS2 games to play. I played GTA SA on the PS2 and that was it. SO many games I missed.

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @oOcornflakeOo I'm on meds, but that can't control where the floating bits of cartilage go. Ha! My mom's a nurse, so I'm totally down with your endeavor. Nursing is a great profession that's in high demand today. Good luck!!!

    @Everyone Your interview questions are wanted! Please check this out and leave some questions if you have time:

    http://rpad.tv/2009/10/15/questions-wanted/

  • Shockwave562

    well Hrolf at least they'll be available on PSN sometime in the future. personally I'd rather grab a copy used on Amazon or Ebay but hopefully the PSN price for PS2 games will be reasonable enough

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    I went through 3 PS2's and 2 XBOX's last gen. I've also gone through 2 360's, although only one of them was a RRoD. The other was a disc drive faliure. I also had a 36" TV burn out on me in less than 5 years. I'm shocked my PC has lasted 6 years with only one visit from the computer DR to make things "mostly" alright. It's unfortunate, but nothing expensive is made to last anymore.

  • RRODisHere

    @Hrolf

    Dude, I hate that lack of BC topic. If you want to play PS2 games then get a PS2.

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    I tend to think that there should be some sort of way for PS2 game owners to put their UPC codes in and download the game for free rather than having to pay for it a 2nd time. I feel the same way about the Games on Demand on XBL honestly.

  • Shockwave562

    that's actually a pretty cool idea Nightshade. using the upc could prevent piracy too

  • Greg Brown

    I don't agree with any point system. What if the gamer is an RTS fanatic? He's not going to buy an FPS game like Halo 3 or Modern Warfare 2, even though it might get high scores from reviewers.

    I'm not sure if everyone thinks that the ratings are competing against every game, or just the genre that it's in, or maybe they should have two ratings. I mean a 4.5 on Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts and a 4.7 on Call Of Duty 4 doesn't exactly mean one is better then the other. You can compare apples and oranges to get the differences and see which one you like more, but this is completely different.

    All in all, games should have three ratings, although Story can be replaced by another factor, I think it would do well.

    Story – Does it have a good story, or is it just bland?

    Replay Value – Can you play this over and over until your thumbs bleed?

    Multiplayer – Is this game really awesome for you and your friends?

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @Greg Brown I mostly agree with you. The system I like isn't based on points. However, I don't think that the three criteria you listed is enough. A lot of enjoyment can be derived from graphics and sound, for example.

  • Shockwave562

    @ Greg – see a lot of that preference stuff comes down to the education of the individual. I am almost certain the new FF will probably get a 9. something on metacritic but JRPGs are just not for me. you have to be an educated buyer to know whether or not you might like a game. and genre is a good place to start

  • Greg Brown

    @Ray Oh right, I totally forgot about the media of the game itself like sound and graphics.

    Ha.

  • SlickyFats

    @cornflake

    I am supposed to be studying for an A&P test today to get into the nursing program. Its already not going well since i have been here all morning

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    If you go to Bioware.com, you can tell what games other members have bought when they post in the forums because you enter you UPC code on the site. I'm not a programmer, or an expert on how all things electronic work, but I'd have to imagine that you could do something similiar with the online services like PSN and XBL for older titles. At least it seems logical enough on the surface.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    to me, its about making informed purchases.. i just fail to see what drives the purchase of the other.. its like a video game.. would you buy a game that will be fun only 43% of the time? uhhh duh! no

  • tokz_21

    I'm glad to see that this topic is going to take us past 200 comments again. More traffic for Rpad means he'll hopefully be able to keep this site up.

  • Hrolf

    @ RROD

    If I had room for everything I would gladly do that. I will probably have to for some of the games I know I want for the system, but I am too lazy to get behind the tv and hook everything up each time I want to play. I COULD play the games on the smaller 25 inch tv so maybe I will do that. Honestly, its just easier with B/C but not a necessity by any means

  • Shockwave562

    are we still on that 57% fail thing cornflake? My xbox has worked 100% of the time for nearly three years now…

  • Shockwave562

    @Hrolf, I definitely agree. I don't own a PS2 or an Xbox anymore. but I always keep my favorite discs thanks to BC… but who knows, sounds like that's going away. I'd rather see this DD become popular. I just don't want to pay for things twice if they haven't been improved in some way

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    Just made some changed to the site's sidebar. Let me know if you like it this way or if you liked the three-tab menu better. Maybe some of you won't notice. Ha!

  • oOcornflakeOo

    if you were to use the UPC codes, then i could just go to game stop, copy all the codes in their used game baskets and have a bajillion free games.. that wouldn't work

  • http://twitter.com/Sandrock323 Sandrock323

    I've had some busy work days this week. Should slow down nxt week thouugh.

  • Hrolf

    The way you have it now is good. but I had no problem with the 3 tab menu either

  • Shockwave562

    well I'll give you that. but maybe you could only have one active so if you purchased it you call sony and they deactivate that for the person that stole it if you have proof of purchase.

    I think the guys at gamestop might notice someone with a pen and pad writing down upcs though. but I can definitely see the flaws in that system

  • oOcornflakeOo

    its bound to happen buddy =P theres a reason why its at 57% so yes it will be brought up over and over… ignorance isn't the cure. ok i'm sorry. i don't wanna seem as though i'm attacking anyone here. you guys are all cool in my book no matter what system you put your blind faith into

  • SlickyFats

    @shockwave

    Pen and paper yes but cell phone pics or video would be sneaky

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

    3 tab bar personally. Makes it easier to find what I'm looking for IMO.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    leave the three tabs.

  • SlickyFats

    I say if you really want the digital copy of a game bad enough you should have to mail in your hard copy in exchange for a voucher. Didn't a movie company do something like that when HD-DVD bombed, send in HDDVD for a BluRay.

  • tokz_21

    @rpad

    The new way is better, it reminds me of the G4 feature comment when you viewed the feed headlines one by one. How are you filtering which comments are placed on the sidebar?

    Is it by the topic they started or best feedback or other?

    Keep up the good work….

  • Dad

    The industry must have developed standards in the review of games since they have been in existence for a while. Convening game critics with representation from users to develop one set of ratings would mean a lot more than the diverse way numbers are used without necessarily attaching meaning to them

  • oOcornflakeOo

    if it isnt a customer copying the codes via video/cell phone pics, then for sure a nerd working behind the counter would capitalize on the codes. it would never work

  • Shockwave562

    that 57 was a poll of 5,000 gamers cornflake. (people who have probably owned xbox since the awful start) do you know how many people own a 360? 30 million? I don't even know what fraction of a percent that is out of all the people who own a system. suffice to say I'm ok with .000000 whatever percent of people have a 57 percent fail rate.

  • oOcornflakeOo

    @shockwave

    but doesn't that warrant at the very least a red flag when considering the purchase? regardless of the number of participants in the poll, it is a more-than well known fact in the gaming industry that the system's architectural build is flawed severely and it will go down in the books as one of the worst built gaming systems in history [and apparently the slyest ever seeing how consumers willingly throw their money at it].

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @tokz_21 The comment box lists the ten most recent. I shall try to keep it up. I hope you keep reading!

  • oOcornflakeOo

    last i checked, polls generally represent a pattern that would reflect/represent to average populous

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/home Nightshade386

    Yeah, I have a hard time taking that particular GI poll seriously. It was hardly a scientific sample. It's not like they did a thourough background examination to find 5000 gamers, they pretty much let anyone respond.

    And frankly most TV polling is a waste of time for the same reason. You can ask the same question on MSNBC and FOX NEWS and get two completely different samples (for obvious reasons).

  • Shockwave562

    maybe cornflake, I bought an xbox day one and so I didn't have the chance to be looking for red flags. do I regret buying it? most certainly not. To be honest it annoys me, MS messed up big time and it's a shame they got away with it but reliability is just not something I think about when I compare my PS3 and my 360. I also think that very few new xboxs will fail like the release ones have. I think this RROD and E74 debate will be over in the next couple years. think of how few E74 errors have been reported. to my understanding E74 was introduced when the Elite was 3 years ago and it hasn't gotten nearly the coverage that RROD did

  • Shockwave562

    I guess when it comes down to it cornflake, after all the mishaps both Sony and MS have had with the release of this gen at the end of the day both of them are excellent consoles and now both of them are pumping out great games. isn't that all that really matters anymore?

  • oOcornflakeOo

    yes thats true but i wont excuse it from memory.. to forgive, yes but to forget, mmm not my style. like i said, i think you guys are cool, i'm just not down with M$'s recent lack of quality ::looks at windows vista::

  • Shockwave562

    ya vista was a huge mistake. a god awful one. of course I was one of the few people who got in on the ground floor of Windows Me too. remember that forgotten piece of garbage?

    MS is crap but I use it at work because that's how business is done. MS is crap but I have a 360 because I love good games. I think I'm more loyal to certain developers like bioware than I am MS or Sony really. just give me good games.

  • Shockwave562

    I got nothing against you either cornflake. I like a mature debate I just don't like it when arguments turn in to cheap attacks

  • rbee90

    @hrolf

    sorry for the uber late reply, just got out of english class. well, at least RE5 wasn't crap. The gameplay may be frustrating sometimes, but the story was fun. I had fun killing lickers, and the final boss fight with wesker was awesome. The thing i really hated about RE5 was the atmoshpere. it wasnt that much of a survival horror game anymore. And as for Fable 2 winning GOTY, yes, i totally disagree with that decision made by Sessler and the xplay crew. Im not saying its a bad game, Fable 2 was awesome, (even though, i only played it once for 5 hours), its just fable 2 isnt GOTY material.

  • Hrolf

    About RE in general, I hate them all. I couldnt stand the control scheme and because of that I never played them. The graphics of RE 5 looked good, and I have heard that you can change the control, ut I will most likely never play it simply cuz I know nothing of the other games.

  • Shockwave562

    @Hrolf, same boat for me. didn't like the demo for the controls mostly. I felt so frustrated when I wanted to shoot something and it all moved so slow. it didn't make it scarier it just pissed me off

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/home Nightshade386

    The demo for RE5 was all I needed to play to know I wouldn't like the game. It immediately came off of my GameFly Q. I'm sorry, but if the shambing hoare of undead is coming towards me, I damn well better be able to back away while shooting at the very least.

  • Hrolf

    then they charged for the multiplayer. that pretty much killed any chance of them getting my money. I spend 30 dollars a year for gold to play multiplayer, shouldnt have to pay more..

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    It's time…for console wars!!! Microsoft Aaron Greenberg fires off a defensive shot:

    http://rpad.tv/2009/10/15/microsoft-expects-to-be

  • oOcornflakeOo

    what it really boils down to is quality..

    @shockwave

    fortunately for me, i never had to deal with windows ME.. i was either too young to experience it or too poor at the time [for my family] to buy a computer

  • Hrolf

    Windows ME was more stable for me then XP, Or Vista. though I am really glad I went and got a Macbook. I just wish more games were available. I would SO buy Fallout 3 for Mac…

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    Ladies and gentlemen, you've set a new site record for comments!!! Thank you all so much!

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/home Nightshade386

    You know if you get paid on a per comment basis, I'll be glad to spam the board for ya! I'm clearly not doing anything I'm supposed to be doing at work anyway…..

  • http://www.gamerswishlist.com/home Nightshade386

    @r-pad: Yeah, I know. I was being silly.

  • Shockwave562

    ya I wish more developers supported Mac.. my work computer (I have to use xp on bootcamp though) my home computer and my laptop are all macs. I love em

  • N8R

    Sorry guys, I crashed out.

    @ RROD

    I'm actually pretty stingy and I really do look for games with replay value. The only game I felt I wasted $60 on was L4D. The demo was awesome but once I got the game, it got very repetitive, very fast.

    Luckily, I ended up selling it to someone for $40 shortly after the release so I ultimately only wasted $20.

    @ shockwave

    I'm strictly Mac anymore either. But, since Macs are using Intels and NVIDIAs now, I think the days of Mac not having games will end shortly.

  • Smartguy

    @N8R

    Only if developers use OpenGL. Aion is a good example of a developer shitting all over the platform. THough aion sucks.

  • N8R

    @ Smartguy

    I also believe that OpenGL is the wave of the future. Those who don't use it in the coming years will be selling themselves short.

  • rbee90

    did you guys read about the baldur's gate camera for dragon age: origins can only be possible on the pc?

    @N8R and smartguy

    since you guys are talking about video cards, or some sort, please…enlighten me, i must have the pc version of dragon age. and my computer needs some gaming upgrades. im getting ready for starcraft 2 and diablo 3 too. the only game i have for pc playin is DOTA, and i love DOTA.

  • http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

    @N8R When I worked at PC Magazine Labs, we always referred to it as Open Green Lantern. Ahhhh, nerd humor.

  • N8R

    @ rbee

    I really don't know that much about it. Smartguy and Ray are much more well versed in that kind of thing. I'm a console gamer by definition.

    I use my computers for graphic design, music, movies/shows, and talking with you guys… that's about all I need.

    Oh, and porn. Can't forget about that.

  • rbee90

    @N8R

    hm…same thing here, especially, for movies and porn, and DOTA, did i mention i love DOTA? it would be an honor to have a DOTA session with you guys.

  • Smartguy

    @rbee

    depends on what the rest of your machine is running. Nvidia 8800 GTS should do you fine for dragon age. Personally I like the 250. Also, BFG has never done me wrong. If your machine is a bit old just check your power supply to make sure you can run the card. In all honesty, whatever you get to run dragon age should more than handle SC2. Remember, SC2 is done. All that is left is multiplayer beta kinks. Graphics are done.

    I don't foresee blizzard making diablo3 much harder to run. Point is, if you are running dragon age on full settings…the two blizz games won't be an issue.

  • Lunias

    Here's what I would love to see: your rating idea, but as cutoff points for games on a different scale. The point scale that goes from 0-10 by increments of .5 gives a pretty good idea of the game's quality, but I would LOVE to have some cutoff points. Honestly, anything above an 8 seems like a good buy, but I want a distinct cutoff point for the ratings. Here's an example:

    0 – 5.0 : Eff it.

    5.5 – 7.5 : Rent it.

    8.0 – 9.5: Buy it.

    10.0 – NEED IT.

    Just give us a distinct explanation of the rating scale; it would (probably) work well.

  • Pingback: Coffee Talk #323: Will Gamers Always Be Fixated on Score? | RPad.TV -- Raymond Padilla & friends talk games and geek culture()

  • BigBlak

    "Whether the Motorola Cliq will turn the company around"

    What a horrible phone that was lol.