Coffee Talk #7: PS3 vs. Xbox 360 — The Race to #2

Posted on October 20th, by raymond padilla in Coffee Talk, Console Wars, PS3, Today's Specials, Videogames, Xbox 360. 182 comments

Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, Joe Girardi’s interesting bullpen management, the sexy Motorola Droid for Verizon, or what games you’ll be buying this week, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.

By now, most of you will have had time to think about the September 2009 NPD Group console sales figures. Sony did very well for itself, selling loads of systems thanks to the PS3 price cut and the introduction of the PlayStation 3 Slim. While the Nintendo Wii will end up being the sales winner this console generation (barring some catastrophe like Romulans attacking Earth to steal every Wii on the planet), some feel that second place is up for grabs.

PS3 vs Xbox 360 Coffee Talk #7: PS3 vs. Xbox 360 The Race to #2

Xbots will argue that the 360 has way too big a lead in North America. The company will continue to sell its exclusives and sell more third-party games thanks to a larger installed base. Improvements to Xbox Live will cement the console’s position of having the best online console-gaming experience.

Members of the Sony Defense Force will point out that this is a marathon, not a sprint. This console generation is far from over and Sony has superior first-party games lined up for 2010. With the console’s price cut, the PS3′s capabilities — Blu-ray playback, built-in Wifi, etc. — clearly make it a better value than the 360. With better games and better hardware that’s now at a competitive price, it’s only a matter of time until the PS3 surpasses the Xbox 360.

Certainly there are still too many variables, too many years, and too many unannounced games that will shape the remaining years of this generation, but it’s still fun to play analyst. So pretend for a few minutes that you’re Wedbush Morgan’s Michael Pachter or EEDAR’s Jesse Divnich. I want to know which console you think will end up grabbing the silver medal this console generation. Do you think it’ll be Microsoft’s Xbox 360 or Sony’s PlayStation 3? Pick a side and state your case (please!).

On a side note, it feels liberating to be able to throw around the terms Sony Defense Force and Xbot again.

Coffee Talk Console Wars PS3 Videogames Xbox 360

Xsnipe2killg4feedX

xp flaws is that is crash alot…I support the developer that makes the good games for 360 but I don't see myself support the 360 itself… If they come out with a new console I will buy one if there isnt a major flaw on it. I was on windows7 beta for 2years my system never crash…
N8R

… and the viruses… and the malware.

Windows7 hasn't succumbed to that because MS is fairly careful who they let the beta test out to for one, and 2, it's closely monitored… for now. The security flaws will become abundant once it hits the masses. Until they abandon the registry system… it's inevitable.

Photoshop is only so expensive because it's pirated to a heavy degree. If no-one pirated it (fat chance of that happening) it would come down in price. Adobe has said that numerous times.
N8R

Also… you didn't say they need to drop out of the console race… you said put down. As a whole, that means Windows and all their games as well.
Xsnipe2killg4feedX

I highly doubt that even the first adobe photo shop was expensive. Windows7 was on all bittorent sites. Infact Microsoft themselves allow that. Betta tester wasn't the one that was spreading the love about windows 7. It was everyone that dl windows 7 at many torrent sites. Once google made an OS for the mini labtop and once they make an OS I might be incline to jump onto it.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Thundercracker Ha! That video is pretty awesome, but not as awesome as, "When it comes crashing down and it hurts inside!!!"

@Xsnipe2killg4feedX I'm looking forward to Chrome OS. When I was at G4, a lot of the workflow was through Google Docs, I work on this site mostly in Chrome, my numerous Gmail accounts are invaluable, and I love Google Calendar.

@Everyone Hmmm, I just woke up from a nap (thanks for wrecking my productivity Vicodin!) and the Angels are going on a run. Maybe I should go back to sleep….
N8R

@ snipe

See what I did there, I got you to go from bashing MS to praising it.

What?
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@N8R Your Machiavellian machinations know no bounds.
rbee90

@N8R and snipe

god, i thot u guys are over that MS thing already

@Rpad

have you ever been to gamplay long beach? they import japanese games, and if you order it from them your shipping is free, and you ust have to pay the game's price, i ordered white knight chronicles earlier! and it will be o my hands this weekend!!!
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@rbee90 I have not. I've been to that import place on Sawtelle though.
N8R

@ snipe

After a heap of research, I found that Photoshop 1.0 (a Mac exclusive, not available for Windows until version 2.5) did indeed cost $999.99.

Still, Adobe does claim that the price would go down if it weren't for the piracy. Whether or not that's true is a hypothetical scenario with only hypothetical reasons. i.e. It's not worth debating since there are no real facts.

In all fairness, I never suggested what earlier versions of Photoshop cost though, I was just stating what Adobe claimed.
N8R

@ rbee

Sorry, dude flip-flops like John Kerry. I had to catch him going back on his stance because… I thought it was funny.
Smartguy

So I hear God of War 3 will have DLC. Piss on those developers for that. Makes me not want to buy it. If they can't tell me the whole story for the sixty dollar retail, I don't think I will give them my money. Especially since they said the game will not have a MP component to it. If the DLC isn't something like the AA challenge maps, I'm gonna just borrow the game from someone.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy Dang you're angry tonight.
http://www.gamerswishlist.com Nightshade386

Yankees win!!
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

Nightshade386 Indeed!!!
Smartguy

@Ray

Maybe I was. This morning I still stand by what I said though. If the game is supposed to be the conclusion to the story, I want everything to be in it at retail. I don't want to have to pay extra to do it.
http://www.gamerswishlist.com/ Nightshade386

@Ray: Did you just go all Funaki on me? EEEEEEVVVVVVIIIIILLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Xsnipe2killg4feedX

Wow you guys are still talking on coffee talk LOL Almost that it was just me and N8R in here.
Xsnipe2killg4feedX

I only support quality hardware! And I don't think 360 is worth the price of admission….I price Microsoft on other things but not the 360…:)

RPad I am so looking forward to the OS too :)
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy I understand your pov. That said, things are tougher from the development side. Budgets have gone way up, while game prices haven't.

@Nightshade386 I will have you know that Funaki is the best announcer in SmackDown history!
Smartguy

@Ray

Then game developers should negotiate better terms with the console manufacturers. I understand development has gone up but you can't expect me to pay $60 for a game and then dish out close to $20 more on DLC just to get the full experience. Especially since the price of the consoles themselves are coming down. If I buy a game for the PS3 at full price and pay another $15-20 on DLC then I have just spent at a minimum 25% of the retail price of the console on one title. That is asking alot of the consumer.

For comparisons sakes, the movie industry only charges me $9 to see a movie that costs between $80-100 million (average). They aren't trying to juice me on the backend with a $50 dollar dvd or something.

I think game prices need to come down. The prices were justified when this generation debuted but the same engines keep getting licensed out and that in itself should make the dev cycles cheaper and shorter.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy Are dev cycles getting cheaper and shorter? I'm not sure about that.

As for negotiating better terms with the "big three", that'll be tough. I'm for anything that gets developers more money and gives them more power, but I don't see any major changes on the way. The console makers and the large publishers wield too much power.
Smartguy

@Ray

I said it should make them cheaper and shorter. It's just plain logical. If you license the Unreal engine or id engine it shouldn't be nearly as labor intensive and costly as developing from the ground up. I don't think the developers are angels in this equation….they are the lesser of the evils though lol.

Why shouldn't game prices come down as the generation goes by? I'm talking about new releases or maybe dropping the prices on titles in a shorter time period. It only takes one developer to push the issue and start a trend. Good example would be when 2k released 2K5 for $20. It was and is still the greatest football game ever released for a home console. Unfortunately instead of competing with product EA gave the NFLPA a truckload of money for an exclusive license. Still though, it showed that with an established engine, a developer was able to produce a game in a timely fashion and sell it cheap. The EA strong arm proved that.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy I think you're over simplifying engine licensing. I've seen too many developers spend as much time and money customizing a licensed engine as they would building one from the ground up. This is especially true for multiplatform development. It's no secret that a lot of devs had problems using the Unreal Engine on PS3.

The 2K5 example — didn't the developers just use most of the code and art assets from its predecessor? I thought that was the case.
Smartguy

@Ray

Yeah, 2k5 did borrow alot from the predecessor games. Something Madden has done for at least 10 years and still charges $60 for every release. What's to make you think that Bungie didn't do that with Halo and Halo2? Clean up the engine a little bit? Yeah. Create alot of new stuff? No. I think most sequels are guilty of that.

As far as developers who toil over customizing a licensed engine, hiring experienced guys who have worked with the engine before could help those costs. It couldn't hurt anyway. I just don't see why the costs of sequels are full price when most don't really offer any new innovation. Clippings of the first title with new music lol.

I'm an accountant who has minored in economics (read nerd) so this kind of stuff isn't arguing to me, it's just good coffee talking material.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy Actually new art assets are created every year for Madden. The same goes for Halo and Halo 2. So for those examples, I think you're wrong.

As for hiring "experienced help", that's pretty impossible within the first few years of a console's lifespan. I would say only now are programmers finding grooves for particular engines. If it were that easy, then every PS3 game would look as good as Uncharted 2 and MGS4.
Smartguy

@Ray

Not wrong. In madden, Aaron Brooks and Joe Horn are still on the posters lining the field in the Superdome. They haven't played with the Saints since before Katrina. Character models don't change either. So many Saints players had dreadlocks when they are actually bald. I'm talking the dreads that hang out of the jersey. EA is the biggest abuse of a license I have ever seen. 2K5 proves it. In Halo and its sequel the character models never changed. They shouldn't change for lead characters granted, but some diversity in the way enemies look would be nice. Floor textures as well as background textures were ported between titles. Not saying you can't add a new color palette but the costs to make the sequel were probably less considering the groundwork was done with the first title. Halo 2 just had more voicework.

Experienced help would come from maybe hiring a consultant from the licensing company. Could be a good career field if some developers want to just intricately learn a particular engine and then evolve with it generation to generation.

About the Unreal engine though….wasn't it built around a traditional processor and PC architecture as well as the 360 architecture? That would make sense why it doesn't run as well on the PS3.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

You're correct about Unreal Engine. Initially, it was much easier to work with on PC and Xbox 360.

Again, I disagree with you on the Halo example. At the time, I saw work-in-progress art assets. I assure you that they were reall. New art assets are required for every game, even Madden.

Are sequels easier to make than the original game? Sure, but generally there are other costs that raise budgets. In many cases, a sequel's budget is bigger than the original's.
Smartguy

@ray

But EA with what I would consider their flagship title shows me that the artwork might be for a menu or one team. I couldn't believe when I took a chance and bought last year's version that it had those players still in the stadium. For what it's worth, they could have just sold me an updated roster for 10 dollars and let me use an older copy of the game.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy A roster update would have been great…unless you're an EA shareholder. Ha!
Smartguy

@Ray

I do what I can…vote with my wallet. Unfortunately there is no shortage of people in this world who just rush out and buy the "new" madden.
http://rpad.tv raymond padilla

@Smartguy Agreed. EA does what they do with Madden because they know it'll sell.

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Coffee Talk #7: PS3 vs. Xbox 360 — The Race to #2

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